the beaslbob build - Page 12
Tropical Fish

Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources » Freshwater Fish and Aquariums » Advanced Freshwater Discussion » the beaslbob build

the beaslbob build

This is a discussion on the beaslbob build within the Advanced Freshwater Discussion forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by jaysee Is it just "because I can"? Originally Posted by Flear Rsskylight, ... because i can :) Aaaaaaaaand there it is...

Check out these freshwater fish profiles
Guppy
Guppy
Salt and Pepper Cory
Salt and Pepper Cory
Like Tree62Likes

Reply
Old 02-11-2014, 02:05 PM   #111
 
jaysee's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysee View Post
Is it just "because I can"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flear View Post
Rsskylight, ... because i can :)
Aaaaaaaaand there it is
rsskylight04 likes this.
jaysee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2014, 02:35 PM   #112
 
rsskylight04's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flear View Post
Rsskylight, ... because i can :)

like yourself, for academic interest :)

to understand more :)

to a belief that 'good enough' isn't always good enough, ... maybe better can be done, maybe there are things we do that cause issues, or things we do that are just because, or what can be done to solve other issues, ... so many questions :)

worst case scenario, i know in lots of detail why things are done (and will share :) - sometimes prematurely :(

but to understand what can be changed, and what can't, to not give up on the idea that some things can be overcome that we are doing because "it's how it's always been done"

sure, a goal, that asks i look into all kinds of things, to explore all kinds of areas, some revising (like reinventing the wheel) others into areas that are taken for granted, ... and a few "well about about X" and see if this is the boost that's needed to go beyond what has been done before

the results so far are not as aesthetically pleasing as some tanks, but the idea of a tank that can maintain perfect health, ... that's something that goes into it's own area of beauty. ... to get there i tend to do all this insane level stuff ... some gets me no where, some has no current answers, some actually moves me forward

I like this answer. There is a certain beauty in the IDEA of a naturaly self sustaining tank, and i love asking questions and seeking answers just for the sake of doing it. I teach literary theory and where would that subject be without needless questions and unnecessary answers? What I don't like is promising people results when there is no real reason to believe that they can achieve them.
Again, thanks to ALL for such an interesting discussion.
rsskylight04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2014, 02:50 PM   #113
 
from my hormone question (here, advance section)

there's at least one study being done on plants reducing hormones, the test conducted in a hydroponics system.

that's promising, .. may require a tank far heavier planted then i originally considered though

but that much growing in the water column would also work like-wise as hard at keeping TDS down.

i swear i don't have ADD, but i gotta go over that post from earlier and keep getting distracted :(
Flear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2014, 04:17 PM   #114
 
Mikaila31 (i hope you read this curiousity)

i'm going to assume my tank at home (without water changes in more months than i can count)
is going to have a TDS that is through the roof (measurably anyway)

you mentioned your tap water is about ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikaila31 View Post
The water is clear. Now stat breakdown for this tank as of today is:
kH = 8-9d
NO3 = 0ppm
GH = 15-16d
pH = 7.8
TDS = 529ppm

My tap water that I use to top this tank up has the following stats:
kH = 4d
N03 = 0-5ppm
GH = 6d
pH = 7.8 - 8.0
TDS = 130ppm

Now these are truthfully what you should expect from a lack of water changes. KH and GH will usually be the first to increase. Its not hard to keep nitrates at zero even without filtration, especially when a tank is designed to do so. One degree hardness is equal to 17.8ppm, calculating that out on the heavy side of those numbers you can account for a 267ppm increase on the TDS. Yet the tank has a 399ppm increase in TDS over the tap. There is 132ppm increase unaccounted for, which goes beyond anything I can test for. This tank is not sustaining itself, that is what this is staying, there is build up and it will keep building up.
... so i'm sure my tank is far higher than your "dirty" tank

if i can get the numbers down through massive plant overgrowth (it's an idea, a place to start)
things will reach an equalibrium if this is even feasable.

what set of numbers would you consider to be "soft" or even "managable".

i'm sure the lower the number the hard it will be to keep it there as equilibrium and homeo-stasis set in. i have seen the tank maintain a low pH that faught every attempt i made to raise it (till i did a massive trim on plants, then things went in the opposite direction and i'm sure a pH similar to what beaslbob mentions, over 8.

right now my tank is 7.0, but only because of a regular pH buffer i'm adding, this one isn't my "self-sustaining" one, more of an experiment your free to yell at me for being careless with my fish)

but i'm regularily adding a buffer, it's dependant on this buffer, as far as self-sustaining goes somewhere between a failure, and experiment, ...

but,all that background and distraction aside, ...

IF the plants work at getting things back down, ... what kind of numbers would i consider to be on the right direction ?

as i'm sure, if the numbers are 400TDS, but stable there, some may consider that "well it's stable at least" but is that really taken care of itself, or just as low as the system can keep itself that it just can't reach lower levels

so i'm curious (and others are free & encouraged to add), ... what kinds of numbers should i be looking for ?

damn, i am going to need more test kits :(, oh well, for a good cause :)
Flear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2014, 05:23 PM   #115
 
beaslbob method parameters and picture

parameters for a bealbob build setup:


beaslbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2014, 05:27 PM   #116
 
picture of tank

beaslbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2014, 05:33 PM   #117
 
10g

In this tank we used dechlor so it is not a "true" beaslbob build.

but we added 6 neon tetras and 5 glo fish immediately. It was close as one neon died the first day.

this was two weeks after startup and the fish lived for two years until we torn down the tank for a move.


It is also a 10g

beaslbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2014, 05:37 PM   #118
 
and here is a short video of a 10g following the beaslbob build by an inexperienced aquariumist

beaslbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2014, 05:53 PM   #119
 
Agent13's Avatar
 
Yea.. I've seen these pics a long time ago .. Even the video . I'm not exactly sure if you're allowed to post someone else's stuff without giving them credit..

Anywhoo... I can't recall .. What are the current tanks you have at this moment and are you still using this so called method ? If so how long has your current setup been running ?

Thanks..


Sent from Petguide.com App
Agent13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2014, 05:57 PM   #120
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsskylight04 View Post
I really love the chemistry behind keeping freshwater fishtanks. Thanks guys for such an in-depth treatment of the subject. My interest is mainly academic, and i might just be missing the point but... why get into all this masters level chemistry when stable, healthy conditons can be maintained by regular water changes. I mean, what's so bad about water changes?

I love the idea of an all natural tank with no chemicals or filtration, but in a closed, unnatural system such as an aquarium, it seems pretty obvious that you'll have to remove and replace water regularly to avoid unnatural and unhealthy conditions.

I dont ask this to insult or contradict anyone. I really appreciate the thought and caring that goes into a discussion like this.

Best wishes to all.
that does not seem to be obvious at all to me. Unless you do massive water changes frequently, waer changes will never maintain healthy conditions by themselves. What will happens is conditions build up to where the conditions just before a water change equals the change between water changes divided by the fraction of water change. so if you change 1/5 of the water the tank conditions will be 5 times the change between water changes. Plus whatever is in the replacement water. So unless you are doing 100% daiily water changes with perfect water, the tank conditions override the water change effect.

So what is important is to limit the amount the tank changes. then the water changes are irrelevant and in fact can only deteriorate conditions.

Hence I have kept FW and marine tanks for up to 9 years with no water changes.

my .02
beaslbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:52 AM.